Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/29/1995 05:05 PM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
March 29, 1995
5:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman
Representative Carl Moses, Vice Chairman
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Kim Elton
Representative Scott Ogan
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 208: "An Act relating to seafood processing plans of operation
and seafood processing standard operating procedures;
relating to quality assurance plans; and providing for an
effective date."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HB 175: "An Act relating to sport fish guides; and providing for
an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
HB 256: "An Act authorizing the commissioner of fish and game to
establish free sport fishing days."
BILL POSTPONED
HB 265: "An Act relating to the export of live dungeness crab."
BILL POSTPONED
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
CHERYL SUTTON, Administrative Assistant
Representative Carl Moses
State Capitol, Room 204
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: 465-4451
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information on HB 208
HERB ECKMANNS, Owner/Operator
Alaska Sausage Company
2914 Arctic Boulevard
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: 562-3636
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 208
GREG FAVRETTO
Favco, Inc.
Post Office Box 190968
Anchorage, Alaska 99579
Telephone: 278-1525
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 208
JANICE ADAIR, Director,
Environmental Health
Department of Environmental Conservation
3601 C Street, Suite 1334
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: 563-6529
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 208
CHUCK JENSEN
East Point Seafoods
Post Office Box 1637
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: 486-5799
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 208
TERESSA KANDIANIS
Kodiak Fish Company
Post Office Box 469
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: 486-6002
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 208
JOHN JOYNER
Post Office Box 5451
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: 247-8458
POSITION STATEMENT: Concerned with HB 175
KEN DOLE, Managing Partner
Waterfall Resort
Post Office Box 6440
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: 225-9461
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 175
BILL STEFFEN, Chairman
Cordova Charter Boat Owners Association
Post Office Box 422
Cordova, Alaska 99574
Telephone: 424-5488
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 175
BILL FOSTER, President
Sitka Charters Members Association
2810 Sawmill Creek Road
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Telephone: 747-6157
POSITION STATEMENT: Concerned with HB 175
DAVID BENTON, Acting Deputy Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
Post Office Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Telephone: 465-4100
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 175
JOHN BURKE, Acting Director
Sport Fish Division
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
Post Office Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Telephone: 465-4100
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 175
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 208
SHORT TITLE: SEAFOOD PROCESSING STANDARDS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MOSES, Austerman, Williams, Mackie,
Grussendorf, Elton, Kubina
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/27/95 502 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/27/95 503 (H) FISHERIES
03/22/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/22/95 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
03/29/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 175
SHORT TITLE: SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSING
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) AUSTERMAN,Ivan
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/10/95 303 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/10/95 303 (H) FSH, RESOURCES, FINANCE
02/27/95 511 (H) COSPONSOR(S): IVAN
03/13/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/29/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 256
SHORT TITLE: FREE SPORT FISHING DAYS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KELLY,Austerman
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/15/95 742 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/15/95 742 (H) FISHERIES, RESOURCES, FINANCE
03/29/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 265
SHORT TITLE: EXPORT OF DUNGENESS CRAB
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/17/95 778 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/17/95 778 (H) FSH, RESOURCES
03/22/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/22/95 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/29/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-20, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Special Committee on Fisheries was called to order by
Chairman Alan Austerman at 5:05 p.m. Members present at the call
to order were Representatives Davis and Elton. The meeting wa
teleconference with Anchorage, Cordova, Ketchikan, Kodiak and
Sitka.
HFSH - 03/29/95
HB 208 - SEAFOOD PROCESSING STANDARDS
Number 013
CHERYL SUTTON, Administrative Assistant to Representative Carl
Moses, indicated that committee members should have a committee
substitute for HB 208, Version U, in their packets. She also
stressed that she had contacted everyone who testified previously
on HB 208 and each participant supported this committee substitute.
Number 054
GARY DAVIS moved to adopt work draft CS for HB 208, Version U.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN objected for the purpose of discussion.
Number 064
REPRESENTATIVES CARL MOSES and SCOTT OGAN arrived at 5:09 p.m.
Number 065
MS. SUTTON stated, "The Federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
is developing Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point (HACCP)
regulations. When they are developed and adopted by federal rule,
the state will adopt, in lieu of the current plans of operation for
seafood processing, the same regulations that are adopted by
federal rule from FDA for HACCP. The bill speaks to that,
specifically in Section 2, where we separated out the permitting
process from the plan of operation. In the past, the permit and
the plan of operation were tied together. Section 2 now separates
that out, but the permit is still renewed annually. The plan of
operation is not renewed annually unless there is some change that
requires renewal. She went on to stipulate, "The top of page 3
reflects the separation out of the plan of operation and who is
required to have a plan of operation. Then Section 4 will be the
section that will repeal Section 2, when the FDA HACCP regulations
are adopted by federal rule. They will repeal the plan of
operation as required and replace it with a HACCP plan."
Number 121
HERB ECKMANNS, Owner/Operator, Alaska Sausage Company, testified
via teleconference from Anchorage, that he has looked at the
different drafts and is very happy with this draft.
Number 129
GREG FAVRETTO, Favco Inc., testified via teleconference from
Anchorage, in support of HB 208.
Number 143
JANICE ADAIR, Director, Environmental Health, Alaska Department of
Environmental Conservation, testified via teleconference from
Anchorage, in support of HB 208.
Number 150
CHUCK JENSEN, East Point Seafoods, testified via teleconference
from Kodiak, in support of the committee substitute for HB 208.
Number 158
TERESSA KANDIANIS, Kodiak Fish Company, testified via
teleconference from Kodiak, in support of the committee substitute
for HB 208.
Number 176
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN lifted his objections to the committee
substitute for HB 208.
Number 178
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked Ms. Sutton for a clarification as
to what HACCP programs are.
MS. SUTTON replied that a fact sheet of HACCP was provided in the
committee members packets. She cited, "The FDA is proposing
regulations that will basically ensure the safe processing and
importing of fish and fishery products." She went on to say, "The
HACCP program is a preventative system of hazardous control that
can be used by food processors and importers. What they do is
evaluate the kinds of hazards that could affect the product, they
institute controls necessary to keep these hazards from occurring,
monitor the performance of these controls and maintain records of
this monitoring." She added that this is based on scientific
principles.
Number 223
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS moved committee substitute for HB 208,
Version U out of committee, with individual recommendations and
accompanying fiscal notes.
Number 230
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN upon hearing no objections, moved CSHB 208(FSH)
out of the House Special Committee on Fisheries, with individual
recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes.
HFSH - 03/29/95
HB 175 - SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSING
Number 236
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN, the prime sponsor of HB 175, gave the committee
a brief synopsis. He said the emphasis of this bill is to create
a guiding license for sport fish guides and tying a recording
system to that licensing. The data collected would be very
important for this aspect of the industry. The commercial fishing
groups already have a recording mechanism in place. This will add
another method for determining how many sport fish are being taken.
It will help the Alaska Department of Fish and Game to set
licenses, fees and deal with allocation issues.
Number 279
JOHN JOYNER testified via teleconference from Ketchikan, with
concerns about HB 175. He wanted to know where the resident fee of
$200 was going to go. He stated, "I hear the state just enacted a
guide registration bill, so we really don't need that. The data
that needs to be gathered, we already are doing extensive (indisc.)
samples." He wanted to know what the point of the bill was.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN felt that the amount of data that has been
collected is insufficient to make the proper determinations of what
is happening in the industry. It is one more step in the process
of the overall use of what the resource is. The money will go
towards the staff time and compilation of the data after it is
gathered.
Number 318
KEN DOLE, Managing partner, Waterfall Resort, testified via
teleconference from Ketchikan, with objections to HB 175. He
indicated that he had attended a Board of Fish meeting where they
passed proposals to have a registration of guides and a definition
of guides. He thought from that standpoint, the information HB 175
is interested in, is already on its way to being recovered. He
also reported that the Board of Fish established a task force to
work with the board and the Alaska Department of Fish and Game
(ADF&G), to establish what additional information or regulations
that need to be implemented. He mentioned, "When your talking
about log books and individual charter boat operators providing
information, you're going to get information that is probably
seriously flawed. In my operation, I have 80 employees. I have 25
guides. I can't fudge. I have people looking over my shoulders,
disgruntled employees can turn me in, that type of thing. I have
to play by the rules. But when you have a single guide out there
that's operating a charter boat, he can do pretty much whatever he
wants." He also spoke to the allocation of the king salmon issue
and the many guides that will get into limited entry. In closing,
he reiterated that the Board of Fish is moving on this topic and
maybe we can wait on legislation and see how they and the task
force move on these issues.
Number 370
REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON expressed to Mr. Dole that the Board of
Fish proposal number 299 and the substitute language, reflects no
fee affiliated with what the Board of Fish did through
administrative regulations. He felt without a fee, we're going to
be diverting resources from other ADF&G programs to accomplish what
the regulations do. He wasn't sure if we can afford to divert
funds from any other division activities.
Number 383
MR. DOLE felt the Board of Fish didn't have the ability to
implement fees. He also expressed the concern that many of his
guides are no longer in the state, and his company alone will be
paying about $14,000 next year for guide registration fees. He
suggested that the ADF&G come back and say, "We are going to need
this amount of money and we believe there's this number of guides
out there, let's divide that up and you put that number in the
bill, I couldn't argue with that."
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON recounted by saying the amount of money
collected on the fee is a separate debate. He didn't view this as
a revenue bill. His concern was over stretching ADF&G's resources
too thin to accomplish the regulations the Board of Fish has
adopted.
Number 412
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN felt that HB 175 is a revenue bill. He made
the comparison between a commercial fishing license and a fish
guide license.
Number 420
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked Mr. Ogan for a clarification in the
comparison of licenses.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN cited Alaska Statute 16.05.480, commercial
fishing license. The fee is set at $30 for residents and $90 for
nonresidents. He felt the fees in comparison were out of line.
But he also proposed that we keep the fees in HB 175 and raise the
commercial license fees.
Number 432
REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES felt that the proposed fees in HB 175
were fair as compared to other sport fishermen licenses. He also
offered that they take into consideration fishery permits as a
fairer comparison.
Number 442
BILL STEFFEN, Chairman, Cordova Charter Boat Owners Association,
testified via teleconference from Cordova, in opposition to HB 175.
He felt that the ADF&G is gathering information from different
places. He also felt that the fee structure was out of line. He
related that we would get more response from the sport fishing
people if you have them report on a voluntary basis. If the state
wants more revenue, they should do something about the
nonresidential commercial fishermen.
Number 470
BILL FOSTER, President, Sitka Charters Members Association,
testified via teleconference from Sitka, with concerns about HB
175. He emphasized the need to move slowly on this bill, in lieu
of the recent Board of Fish proposal and the formation of the task
force. They are evaluating how the Board of Fish proposal and HB
175 could work together. Specifically on HB 175 he stated, "The
merit we find in this bill is identifying who is guiding sport
anglers. For years, we in Sitka and other parts of Southeast, have
been bashed with the so-called explosive growth, based on vessel
registration. The vessel registration now enforced in Southeast,
does not reflect the person actively engaged in sporting fish
charters. Just having a Coast Guard license and a vessel
registered does not mean you're in business. Time and again we
have persons with a vessel on the list, they can insist they were
charter boat operators. This is like me speaking for longliners,
since I helped a person pull one halibut skate about ten years ago.
Over and over we've been hit with this large 166 vessel
registration in the 1994 Sitka list. When you really look at the
list, you can eliminate about a hundred vessels, that for one
reason or another do not charter for sport fishing in Sitka. For
that reason, we would like to see a guide permit that would help
reflect the true nature of the business."
MR. FOSTER continued by saying, "What bothers us about HB 175 is
the report section. Most of us keep very complete records for our
own use. First, if we were to accept HB 175, we would have to have
assurance that a group of sport fish guides would be involved with
the sport fish division to develop the reporting form and the
information required. I think the kinds of information, especially
on kinds and species and things like that, is very important on how
that is approached, especially in light of some negotiations with
our good friends in other parts of the Northwest. On the other
hand, the good part of the reports required, is that it would
identify those speculators who get the permits, but do not guide
clients. Now they could falsify it, but we think the penalty is
fairly severe. In fact, I think you could make the penalty even
greater, with a fine also." He further said, "As far as the fee of
for $200 per permit; we can live with that. It would be worth it
almost to get the speculators out and get realistic numbers of
sport fish guides. As far as the $600 nonresident, it won't keep
them out, but it will make them think a little bit."
Number 516
DAVE BENTON, Acting Deputy Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish
& Game (ADF&G), testified in support of HB 175. He stated that
ADF&G has been supportive of this bill. He believed that something
like HB 175 is necessary for the charter industry. He indicated
that the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council (NPFMC) has
taken up the issue of charter boats and restricting sport charter
operations with regard to halibut. He said, "The state is the
entity that ought to be regulating this industry and that Alaskan's
should be shaping how the charter industry is managed in the
future." Furthermore he said, "The federal system just isn't
really the place that we want to see this activity regulated." He
also shared that the Board of Fish and the NPFMC talked about the
different proposals out before the Board of Fish. The NPFMC
deferred action because of these talks, he disclosed. He didn't
feel that proposal 299, that passed the Board of Fish, is going to
address the kinds of questions and concerns that were posed at the
NPFMC meeting. It does begin to initiate a program to register
guides and start collecting some information. But he pointed out
that it doesn't address some other basic kinds of information that
are important, such as numbers of clients, time in area and
species.
Number 596
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if it was possible to take some of the
funds from this bill, if passed, and dedicate some of this money to
the Fish and Wildlife Protection Division.
Number 616
JOHN BURKE, Acting Director Sport Fish Division, answered that the
money collected would go to ADF&G. Generally, if it comes from
license fees, then it probably couldn't go to the protection
division.
Number 624
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked Mr. Benton the authority of the Board of
Fish to institute fees.
Number 630
MR. BENTON responded by saying, "It's my understanding that fees
have to be enacted statutorily. The Board of Fish cannot enact
fees. It's the prerogative of the legislature to do bills such as
this to collect fees."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS affirmed this answer by saying, "We see
proposal 299 and that doesn't institute any fee. It may recommend,
but it doesn't institute any fee."
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN also specified, "That's also my understanding
that 299 does not give the direction to gather the data either."
Number 639
MR. BENTON confirmed both statements by saying, "I looked at 299
and it does require collection of some information at the time of
registration, but it doesn't require the kinds of information we
would gather in season from the guides."
Number 644
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON commented on one of the questions that Mr.
Foster from Sitka had asked. That question had to do with making
sure that the industry was involved with the drafting of the
information gathering regime. He asked Mr. Benton if it was
possible to notify people who have testified previously on this
bill.
Number 652
MR. BENTON replied that it would go out for public comment and they
could certainly contact those individuals who had testified. He
indicated that ADF&G would be very interested in the guide
industry's comments on the regulations.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN advised the committee that it was his intention
not to move HB 175 out of committee tonight. He felt more
information is needed from both the public and the ADF&G.
Number 662
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked if a chart could be provided from the
ADF&G and address the fees that are paid now versus the fees
proposed in HB 175.
MR. BENTON indicated that guides basically don't pay anything
through the ADF&G. There are vessel registration fees that people
would have to pay. He wasn't clear if ADF&G had access to all that
information, but will try and put together as much as they can.
Number 672
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN thought it would be helpful if someone from the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development could speak to this
issue. He compared fees to the Big Game Commercial Services Board
and how it pays to support the board functions. He also cited
Alaska Statute 16.43.160, setting fees from $10 to $750 for limited
entry permits. That money also goes to support the Limited Entry
Commission. He thought that the fees are too high in HB 175 and we
should compare what the fees are for and what the fees support.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced that the committee would invite
someone from the Department of Commerce and Economic Development to
discuss HB 175.
Number 688
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON felt the fees should be equitable, but we also
have to be sure we match the fees with the work product that is
expected of the ADF&G. We want to collect enough, but not more
than enough. He pointed out that the Commercial Fisheries Entry
Commission license fees are now contributing to the general fund.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN affirmed that the discussion on the fee
structure is very appropriate.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the meeting at 5:50 p.m.
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